Publication date
7/15/08
Volume
29
Number
14
The WatchTower
Views from the "Watch Tower"
The Watchtower Magazines
../literature/watchtower/1908/14/1908-14-2.html
A 
UGUST 
I, 
1908 
ZION'S 
WATCH 
TOWER 
ment. 
While 
we 
find 
in 
the 
Scriptures 
the 
declaration 
that 
an 
election 
is 
in 
progress 
during 
this 
age 
especially, 
and 
to 
some 
extent 
during 
all 
the 
past, 
yet 
it 
is 
not 
the 
kind 
of 
elec­ 
tion 
to 
which 
such 
large 
numbers 
of 
our 
Christian 
friends 
hola. 
Their 
view 
of 
divine 
foreordination 
implies 
not 
only 
the 
elec­ 
tion 
of 
a 
church, 
but 
the 
damnation 
of 
all 
who 
are 
not 
elected; 
and 
here 
we 
must 
differ; 
for 
we 
find 
nothing 
of 
this 
kind 
in 
the 
Word 
of 
the 
Lord. 
We 
find 
nothing 
in 
it 
to 
imply 
that 
all 
the 
non-eleet 
are 
hopelessly 
lost; 
but, 
on 
the 
contrary, 
the 
teaching 
that 
the 
election 
of 
the 
church 
(Christ 
the 
Head, 
the 
church 
his 
body), 
during 
this 
Gospel 
age, 
is 
for 
the 
very 
pur­ 
pose 
that 
they, 
as 
the 
"Seed 
of 
Abraham," 
may 
fulfil 
the 
divine 
plan 
as 
expressed 
in 
God's 
promise 
to 
Abraham, 
namely, 
that 
in 
this 
Seed 
(Christ 
and 
the 
church-Gal. 
3:16, 
29), 
as 
the 
heirs 
of 
the 
divine 
promise 
and 
benevolent 
intention, 
"all 
the 
families 
of 
the 
earth 
shall 
be 
blessed." 
Not 
only 
is 
the 
character 
of 
the 
Scriptural 
election 
a 
very 
different 
one 
from 
that 
which 
has 
generally 
been 
held 
by 
Calvinism, 
but 
the 
object 
of 
the 
election 
is 
as 
widely 
as 
possible 
different 
from 
their 
conception. 
We 
would 
use 
the 
same 
language 
as 
our 
Calvin· 
istic 
friends 
in 
speaking 
of 
the" 
us" 
of 
our 
text, 
in 
that 
we 
would 
say 
that 
it 
refers 
to 
the 
elect 
church, 
but 
we 
deny 
that 
the 
damnation 
of 
all 
others 
is 
either 
stated 
or 
implied. 
In 
the 
preceding 
verses 
(29, 
30) 
the 
Apostle 
explains 
the 
character 
and 
methods 
of 
the 
divine 
selection 
of 
the 
elect 
church, 
and 
we 
cannot 
do 
better 
than 
notice 
its 
details, 
because 
so 
much 
depends 
upon 
this 
point. 
If 
we 
can 
find 
in 
the 
Apostle's 
description 
good 
and 
sufficient 
evidence 
to 
assure 
us 
that 
we 
are 
of 
this 
elect 
church 
then 
we 
shall 
have 
great 
cause 
for 
thankfulness, 
confidence 
and 
joy, 
in 
realizing 
that 
God 
with 
all 
his 
almighty 
power 
and 
wisdom 
and 
love 
is 
en­ 
listed 
on 
our 
behalf. 
A 
great 
difficulty 
with 
many 
seems 
to 
be, 
not 
that 
they 
doubt 
that 
there 
is 
such 
an 
election 
in 
prog­ 
ress, 
nor 
that 
they 
doubt 
that 
God 
is 
for 
some, 
but 
that 
they 
doubt 
that 
they 
belong 
to 
that 
elect 
class-doubt, 
therefore, 
that 
they 
are 
of 
the 
"us," 
and 
that 
God 
is 
for 
them; 
and 
that 
he 
is 
causing 
all 
things 
to 
work 
together 
for 
good 
to 
them. 
By 
reason 
of 
their 
natural 
constitution, 
some 
of 
the 
hum­ 
ble-minded 
of 
the 
Lord's 
people 
lack 
the 
confidence 
which 
they 
should 
have, 
while 
in 
some 
instances 
others 
who 
have 
such 
confidence 
have 
no 
real 
basis 
for 
it. 
Knowledge, 
therefore, 
clear 
knowledge 
of 
the 
Apostle's 
argument, 
is 
essential 
to 
proper 
faith 
respecting 
this 
subject, 
and 
proper 
confidence 
in 
God's 
care 
over 
those 
who 
have 
been 
adopted 
into 
his 
fam­ 
ily 
and 
are 
seeking 
to 
make 
their 
calling 
and 
election 
sure. 
Our 
faith 
is 
made 
necessarily 
dependent 
to 
a 
large 
extent 
UpOl> 
our 
understanding 
of 
the 
divine 
revelation 
on 
these 
subjects. 
Let 
us, 
therefore, 
critically 
examine 
the 
Apostle's 
statement 
with 
reference 
to 
the 
various 
steps 
in 
this 
election, 
and 
note 
our 
own 
connection 
with 
the 
same, 
step 
by 
step, 
that 
we 
may 
know 
to 
a 
certainty 
whether 
or 
not 
we 
are 
of 
the 
"us" 
clas~ 
which 
he 
mentions, 
on 
behalf 
of 
whom 
the 
Lord's 
power 
and 
wisdom 
are 
and 
will 
be 
exerted. 
The 
Apostle 
begins 
by 
asserting 
divine 
foreknowledge; 
a 
divine 
attribute 
which 
will 
not 
be 
questioned 
by 
any 
Chris­ 
tian. 
God 
not 
only 
foreknew 
the 
sin 
that 
would 
enter 
into 
the 
world 
through 
the 
liberty 
given 
to 
father 
Adam 
and 
mother 
Eve, 
but 
he 
also 
foresaw 
the 
fall 
that 
would 
take 
place 
as 
the 
result 
of 
his 
own 
sentence, 
and 
the 
mental, 
moral 
and 
phys­ 
ical 
degradation 
which 
have 
resulted. 
Moreover, 
he 
foreknew 
that 
in 
due 
time 
he 
would 
send 
his 
"Only 
Begotten 
Son," 
our 
Lord, 
to 
ransom 
all 
from 
sin 
and 
its 
penalty, 
so 
that 
ultimately 
he 
might 
be 
the 
Deliverer 
of 
all 
who 
desire 
to 
return 
to 
har­ 
mony 
with 
their 
Creator. 
He 
not 
only 
foreknew 
th.e 
humili­ 
ation 
of 
our 
Lord, 
his 
First 
Begotten 
Son, 
from 
his 
condition 
of 
glory 
and 
spiritual 
nature 
to 
the 
lower 
conditions 
of 
human 
nature, 
but 
he 
foreknew 
his 
trials, 
and 
his 
faithfulness 
through 
them, 
even 
unto 
death, 
even 
the 
death 
of 
the 
cross. 
In 
all 
this 
he 
foresaw 
our 
redemption 
sacrifice. 
He 
foresaw 
also 
the 
glory 
which 
he 
designed 
to 
bestow 
upon 
our 
Lord 
Jesus 
fol­ 
lowing 
his 
obedience, 
as 
expressed 
by 
the 
Apostle 
Paul, 
say­ 
ing, 
"Him 
hath 
God 
highly 
exalted, 
and 
given 
him 
a 
name 
[title, 
honor, 
etc.], 
above 
every 
name." 
But 
our 
heavenly 
Father 
foreknew 
and 
foreordained 
still 
more 
than 
all 
this-the 
selection 
of 
the 
church 
to 
be 
the 
, 
I 
body" 
of 
Christ, 
the 
II 
bride" 
of 
Christ, 
his 
associate, 
not 
only 
in 
the 
sufferings 
and 
trials 
of 
the 
present 
life, 
hut 
also 
in 
the 
subsequent 
glory 
and 
great 
work 
of 
"blessing 
all 
the 
families 
of 
the 
earth." 
This 
is 
distinctly 
stated 
by 
the 
same 
Apostle 
in 
his 
letter 
to 
the 
Ephesians 
(1 
:4), 
where 
he 
de­ 
clares 
that 
"God 
hath 
chosen 
us 
in 
him 
[Christ] 
before 
the 
foundation 
of 
the 
world." 
The 
same 
foreordination 
is 
dis­ 
tinctly 
stated 
by 
the 
Apostle 
Peter, 
who 
writes 
to 
consecrated 
believers, 
addressing 
them, 
"elect 
according 
to 
the 
foreknowl­ 
edge 
of 
God, 
the 
Father, 
through 
sanctification 
of 
the 
spirit," 
etc.-l 
Pet. 
1 
:2. 
But 
the 
predestination 
of 
this 
verse 
(Rom. 
8 
:29) 
is 
not 
at 
all 
what 
has 
generally 
been 
understood: 
it 
is 
not 
said 
that 
God 
predestinates 
that 
some 
should 
go 
to 
heaven 
and 
others 
to 
eternal 
torment. 
That 
is 
where 
false 
human 
reasoning 
ha:;, 
corrupted 
the 
testimony 
of 
God's 
Word 
and 
made 
it 
of 
none 
effect, 
or 
worse-of 
bad 
effect. 
The 
Apostle's 
statement 
is 
clear, 
that 
God 
predestinated 
that 
all 
who 
shall 
be 
of 
this 
elect, 
foreknown 
and 
foreordained 
church 
in 
glory 
must 
first 
be 
"con­ 
formed 
to 
the 
image 
of 
his 
Son"; 
or 
as 
the 
hteral 
reading 
would 
give 
it, 
I' 
copies 
of 
his 
Son." 
How 
reasonable 
tlllS 
predestination 
I 
How 
unreasonable 
the 
false 
view 
I 
God 
is 
calling 
a 
number 
of 
sons 
to 
I' 
glory, 
honor 
and 
immortality," 
and 
has 
made 
Christ 
Jesus 
the 
Only 
Begotten, 
faithful 
in 
every 
trial, 
the 
Head 
or 
Captain 
of 
this 
foreordained 
company, 
whom 
he 
has 
since 
been 
calling, 
testing 
and 
preparing 
for 
the 
fore­ 
ordained 
glory. 
And 
as 
it 
was 
but 
a 
reasonable 
thing 
that 
God 
should 
determine 
that 
if 
our 
Lord 
Jesus 
would 
be 
faithful 
he 
should 
receive 
the 
highest 
exaltation, 
so 
it 
was 
equally 
right 
and 
proper 
that 
the 
divine 
will 
should 
be 
forcibly 
asserted 
and 
that 
he 
should 
predestinate 
that 
none 
could 
be 
of 
that 
glorified 
, 
I 
body 
of 
Christ," 
el:cept 
as 
they 
would 
become 
imitators 
of 
Jesus, 
who 
is 
the 
firstborn 
among 
these 
his 
"brethren." 
Having 
thus 
stated 
the 
matter 
concisely, 
the 
Apostle 
pro­ 
ceeds 
to 
apply 
it 
to 
the 
church 
individually, 
and 
to 
show 
the 
steps 
which 
God 
is 
taking 
during 
this 
Gospel 
age 
for 
the 
pur­ 
pose 
of 
finding 
amongst 
men 
this 
class 
which 
he 
has 
foreor­ 
dained 
shall 
be 
found. 
The 
Apostle 
gives 
the 
particulars 
in 
the 
following 
verse 
(30); 
and 
although 
it 
is 
simply 
stated, 
it 
has 
very 
generally 
been 
stumbled 
over, 
not 
only 
by 
believers 
in 
general, 
but 
also 
by 
theologians, 
because 
of 
two 
things. 
(1) 
The 
last 
word 
of 
this 
verse 
translated 
"glorified" 
should 
be 
translated 
'honored"; 
and 
should 
be 
understood 
to 
refer 
to 
the 
honor 
conferred 
upon 
all 
who, 
during 
this 
age, 
are 
brought 
to 
any 
knowledge 
of 
Christ-the 
true 
light. 
This 
honor 
went 
first 
to 
the 
Jews, 
and 
selected 
a 
"remnant"; 
but 
when 
that 
nation 
proved 
unworthy 
of 
this 
"honor" 
it 
was 
turned 
to 
the 
Gentiles, 
to 
gather 
out 
of 
them 
a 
peculiar 
people, 
a 
holy 
nation, 
to 
bear 
the 
name 
of 
Christ. 
(Aets 
15: 
14.) 
(2) 
The 
reader 
naturally 
expects 
the 
Apostle 
to 
begin 
With 
present 
conditions 
and 
trace 
them 
up 
to 
the 
grand 
result-the 
glorified 
church-while 
on 
the 
contrary 
the 
Apostle 
very 
prop­ 
erly 
begins 
at 
the 
other 
end, 
and 
traces 
the 
results 
downward. 
He 
does 
not 
begin, 
as 
is 
generally 
supposed, 
by 
saying, 
GOll 
honored 
you 
with 
the 
knowledge 
of 
the 
gospel 
of 
Ohrist, 
and 
when 
you 
believed 
he 
justified 
you, 
and 
after 
you 
were 
justified 
he 
called 
you, 
and 
if 
you 
are 
faithful 
to 
your 
calling 
he 
will 
by 
and 
by 
exalt 
you 
to 
the 
condition 
which 
he 
foreknew. 
In­ 
deed, 
it 
would 
not 
be 
possible 
to 
state 
the 
matter 
truthfully 
from 
that 
side; 
because 
many 
are 
honored 
with 
a 
knowledge 
of 
the 
Gospel 
of 
Christ 
who 
are 
never 
justified 
(because 
they 
do 
not 
accept 
the 
knowledge, 
do 
not 
accept 
Christ), 
and 
of 
those 
who 
do 
accept 
Christ 
and 
who 
are 
thus 
justified, 
it 
would 
not 
be 
true 
to 
say 
that 
they 
will 
all 
be 
sanctified; 
nor 
would 
it 
be 
correct 
to 
say 
that 
all 
who 
once 
are 
sanctified 
will 
reach 
the 
condition 
of 
glory; 
for" 
many 
are 
called 
but 
few 
chosen": 
few 
"make 
their 
calling 
and 
election 
sure." 
But 
the 
Apostle 
argues 
the 
matter 
from 
the 
only 
propel' 
and 
logical 
standpoint: 
having 
stated 
that 
God 
has 
foreknown 
or 
fore-intended 
the 
election 
of 
the 
church, 
he 
steps 
forwanl 
to 
the 
time 
when 
God's 
purpose 
and 
intention 
will 
have 
belln 
completed, 
accomplished-the 
time 
when 
the 
election 
will 
be 
finished 
and 
the 
church 
accepted 
to 
glory. 
From 
that 
futnro 
standpoint 
he 
indicates 
the 
various 
steps 
which 
led 
up 
to 
it, 
saying, 
All 
those 
of 
the 
foreknown 
ones, 
glorified, 
will 
pre­ 
viously 
have 
been 
called; 
because 
it 
is 
a 
matter 
of 
grace, 
and 
no 
man 
taketh 
this 
honor 
unto 
himself, 
but 
"he 
that 
is 
called 
of 
God' 
'-as 
the 
II 
Head 
of 
the 
body," 
so 
earh 
memher 
of 
the 
body. 
And, 
says 
the 
Apostle, 
everyone 
thus" 
called" 
will 
pre­ 
viously 
have 
been 
I' 
justified"; 
because 
God 
calls 
no 
enemies, 
no 
unreconciled 
sinners, 
to 
this 
high 
position. 
It 
was 
for 
this 
reason 
that 
Christ 
died, 
that 
through 
faith 
in 
his 
blood 
repent­ 
ant 
helievers 
might 
be 
"justified" 
and 
might 
be 
thus 
prepared 
to 
he 
"called." 
It 
is 
thus 
evident 
that 
the 
high 
calling 
to 
this 
glorious 
position 
of 
joint-heirship 
with 
Christ 
is 
a 
very 
different 
thing, 
indeed, 
from 
the 
calling 
of 
sinners 
to 
repent­ 
ance. 
Sinners 
are 
called 
to 
repentance 
anywhere 
and 
every­ 
where 
and 
at 
any 
time. 
And 
when 
they 
repent, 
the 
Lord 
engages 
that 
in 
due 
time 
he 
will 
point 
them 
to 
II 
The 
fountain 
filled 
with 
blood, 
Drawn 
from 
Immanuel's 
veins; 
Where 
sinners, 
plunge<1 
heneath 
that 
flood, 
Lose 
all 
their 
guilty 
stams." 
When 
they 
have 
lost 
their 
guilty 
stains, 
through 
repent· 
ance 
and 
faith 
in 
the 
Redeemer, 
they 
reach 
the 
condition 
of 
justification, 
and 
arc 
ready 
to 
be 
II 
called" 
to 
sonship 
and 
joint-heirship. 
But 
the 
Apostle 
is 
still 
going 
backward 
in 
the 
[4213] 
AUGUST 1, 1908 ment. While we find in the Scriptures the declaration that an election is in progress during this age especially, and to some extent during all the past, yet it is not the kind of election to which such large numbers of our Christian friends hold. Their view of divine foreordination implies not only the election of a church, but the damnation of all who are not elected; and here we must differ; for we find nothing of this kind in the Word of the Lord. We find nothing in it to imply that all the non-eleet are hopelessly lost; but, on the contrary, the teaching that the election of the church (Christ the Head, the church his body), during this Gospel age, is for the very purpose that they, as the ‘‘Seed of Abraham,’’ may fulfil the divine plan as expressed in God’s promise to Abraham, namely, that in this Seed (Christ and the church—Gal. 3:16, 29), as the heirs of the divine promise and benevolent intention, ‘‘all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’’ Not only is the character of the Scriptural election a very different one from that which has generally been held by Calvinism, but the object of the election is as widely as possible different from their conception. We would use the same language as our Calvinistic friends in speaking of the ‘‘us’’ of our text, in that we would say that it refers to the elect church, but we deny that the damnation of all others is either stated or implied. In the preceding verses (29, 30) the Apostle explains the character and methods of the divine selection of the elect church, and we cannot do better than notice its details, because so much depends upon this point. If we can find in the Apostle’s description good and sufficient evidence to assure us that we are of this elect church then we shall have great cause for thankfulness, confidence and joy, in realizing that God with all his almighty power and wisdom and love is enlisted on our behalf. A great difficulty with many seems to be, not that they doubt that there is such an election in progress, nor that they doubt that God is for some, but that they doubt that they belong to that elect class—doubt, therefore, that they are of the ‘‘us,’’ and that God is for them; and that he is causing all things to work together for good to them. By reason of their natural constitution, some of the humble-minded of the Lord’s people lack the confidence which they should have, while in some instances others who have such confidence have no real basis for it. Knowledge, therefore, clear knowledge of the Apostle’s argument, is essential to proper faith respecting this subject, and proper confidence in God’s care over those who have been adopted into his family and are seeking to make their calling and election sure. Our faith is made necessarily dependent to a large extent upon our understanding of the divine revelation on these subjects. Let us, therefore, critically examine the Apostle’s statement with reference to the various steps in this election, and note our own connection with the same, step by step, that we may know to a certainty whether or not we are of the ‘‘us’’ class which he mentions, on behalf of whom the Lord’s power and wisdom are and will be exerted. The Apostle begins by asserting divine foreknowledge; a divine attribute which will not be questioned by any Christian. God not only foreknew the sin that would enter into the world through the liberty given to father Adam and mother Eve, but he also foresaw the fall that would take place as the result of his own sentence, and the mental, moral and physical degradation which have resulted. Moreover, he foreknew that in due time he would send his ‘‘Only Begotten Son,’’ our Lord, to ransom all from sin and its penalty, so that ultimately he might be the Deliverer of all who desire to return to harmony with their Creator. He not only foreknew the humiliation of our Lord, his First Begotten Son, from his condition of glory and spiritual nature to the lower conditions of human nature, but he foreknew his trials, and his faithfulness through them, even unto death, even the death of the cross. In all this he foresaw our redemption sacrifice. He foresaw also the glory which he designed to bestow upon our Lord Jesus following his obedience, as expressed by the Apostle Paul, saying, ‘‘Him hath God highly exalted, and given him a name [title, honor, ete.], above every name.’’ But our heavenly Father foreknew and foreordained still more than all this—the selection of the church to be the “*body’’ of Christ, the ‘‘bride’’ of Christ, his associate, not only in the sufferings and trials of the present life, but also in the subsequent glory and great work of ‘‘blessing all the families of the earth.’’ This is distinctly stated by the same Apostle in his letter to the Ephesians (1:4), where he declares that ‘‘God hath chosen us in him [Christ] before the foundation of the world.’’ The same foreordination is distinetly stated by the Apostle Peter, who writes to consecrated believers, addressing them, ‘‘elect according to the foreknowledge of God, the Father, through sanctification of the spirit,’’ etc.—1 Pet. 1:2. ZION’S WATCH TOWER (228-229) But the predestination of this verse (Rom. 8:29) is not at all what has generally been understood: it is not said that God predestinates that some should go to heaven and others to eternal torment. That is where false human reasoning has corrupted the testimony of God’s Word and made it of none effect, or worse—of bad effect. The Apostle’s statement is clear, that God predestinated that all who shall be of this elect, foreknown and foreordained church in glory must first be ‘‘ conformed to the image of his Son’’; or as the literal reading would give it, ‘‘copies of his Son.’’ How reasonable this predestination! How unreasonable the false view! God is calling a number of sons to ‘‘glory, honor and immortality,’’ and has made Christ Jesus the Only Begotten, faithful in every trial, the Head or Captain of this foreordained company, whom he has since been calling, testing and preparing for the foreordained glory. And as it was but a reasonable thing that God should determine that if our Lord Jesus would be faithful he should receive the highest exaltation, so it was equally right and proper that the divine will should be forcibly asserted and that he should predestinate that none could be of that glorified ‘‘body of Christ,’’ except as they would become imitators of Jesus, who is the firstborn among these his ‘‘brethren.’’ Having thus stated the matter concisely, the Apostle proceeds to apply it to the church individually, and to show the steps which God is taking during this Gospel age for the purpose of finding amongst men this class which he has foreordained shall be found. The Apostle gives the particulars in the following verse (30); and although it is simply stated, it has very generally been stumbled over, not only by believers in general, but also by theologians, because of two things. (1) The last word of this verse translated ‘‘glorified’’ should be translated ‘honored’’; and should be understood to refer to the honor conferred upon all who, during this age, are brought to any knowledge of Christ—the true light. This honor went first to the Jews, and selected a ‘‘remnant’’; but when that nation proved unworthy of this ‘‘honor’’ it was turned to the Gentiles, to gather out of them a peculiar people, a holy nation, to bear the name of Christ. (Acts 15:14.) (2) The reader naturally expects the Apostle to begin with present conditions and trace them up to the grand result—the glorified chureh—while on the contrary the Apostle very properly begins at the other end, and traces the results downward. He does not begin, as is generally supposed, by saying, God honored you with the knowledge of the gospel of Christ, and when you believed he justified you, and after you were justified he called you, and if you are faithful to your calling he will by and by exalt you to the condition which he forecknew. Indeed, it would not be possible to state the matter truthfully from that side; because many are honored with a knowledge of the Gospel of Christ who are never justified (because they do not accept the knowledge, do not accept Christ), and of those who do accept Christ and who are thus justified, it would not be true to say that they will all be sanctified; nor would it be correct to say that all who once are sanctified will reach the condition of glory; for ‘‘many are called but few chosen’’: few ‘‘make their calling and election sure.’’ But the Apostle argues the matter from the only proper and logical standpoint: having stated that God has foreknown or fore-intended the election of the church, he steps forward to the time when God’s purpose and intention will have been completed, accomplished—the time when the election will be finished and the church accepted to glory. From that future standpoint he indicates the various steps which led up to it, saying, All those of the foreknown ones, glorified, will previously have been called; because it is a matter of grace, and no man taketh this honor unto himself, but ‘‘he that is called of God’’—as the ‘‘Head of the body,’’ so each member of the body. And, says the Apostle, every one thus ‘‘called’’ will previously have been ‘‘justified’’; because God calls no enemies, no unreconciled sinners, to this high position. It was for this reason that Christ died, that through faith in his blood repentant believers might be ‘‘ justified’’ and might be thus prepared to be ‘‘called.’’ It is thus evident that the high calling to this glorious position of joint-heirship with Christ is a very different thing, indeed, from the calling of stnners to repentance. Sinners are called to repentance anywhere and everywhere and at any time. And when they repent, the Lord engages that in due time he will point them to ‘‘The fountain filled with blood, Drawn from Immanuel’s veins; Where sinners, plunged heneath that flood, Lose all their guilty stains.’’ When they have lost their guilty stains, through repentance and faith in the Redeemer, they reach the condition of justification, and are ready to be ‘‘called’’ to sonship and joint-heirship. But the Apostle is still going backward in the [4213]

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